David Waldas (00:01)
Welcome to the Aligned Living System podcast. Today we have our guest, Will Wilkinson, who's, I was about to say an old friend. It's gotten to be that way though. It's been quite a few years now. It's amazing how fast the time goes by, but an old friend from when I lived in Ashland, Oregon. And we've kept in touch over the last few years and we've connected a lot. was just having a lot in common and Will just.
came and went through the Align Living 10 Week Group Program. And as we got talking, I was on his podcast. We just recorded yesterday, yesterday, a couple days ago, and getting ready to record again today. So welcome, Will. Let me give a quick intro, too, about who you are. And you can add to it. But you're a best-selling author, co-author of The Success Paradox, your highly successful
author in your own right and ghostwriter, right? And personal development coach and doing all kinds of things. So, you know, I love the story of how we met too. I just wanted to share that real quick as we're jumping on. know, I moved to Ashland, Oregon and I was wanting to get out and find places to speak and, you know, talk about what I do. And so I went to like three different venues that seemed promising and every one of them said, there's this guy named Will Wilkinson that you need to talk to. And I was like, oh, I'd like.
And so I was like, you know, three different places. I'm like, who is this Will guide? I got to find them. And I'd met two other people at this point and got invited to a party at their house. And, you know, we're sitting around doing this kind of fun activity. We're talking about really setting the intention for our next intention for our next year. And you and I had similar intentions and you walked up to me afterwards and said, hi, I'm Will. I'm like, Wilkinson by chance? And of course it was. And so it was such a fun, synchronistic.
Will (01:29)
You
but
David Waldas (01:55)
You got to find Will and Will showed up. So, you know, we hit it off and have been connecting ever since. So such a blast to have you in the program too and it's like that you're here. So welcome.
Will (01:57)
Ha
Well, thanks David, and I'm sure listeners can resonate with these instant connections we make with people out of the blue that persist. Because you and I have stayed in touch over years now, after you moved away from Ashland and my wife and I are here on Maui, half a year. But for some reason we've stayed in touch and there's these soul connections that we all have that weave throughout our lives and I expect we'll keep doing this.
David Waldas (02:14)
Yes.
right?
Yeah, absolutely. I know it's been really fun and synchronistic too. When there's that much movement pushing people together to connect, there's obvious purpose. Yeah, hard to ignore, hard to ignore. So cool, so we just finished going through the 10 week program and I thought it'd be fun to talk a little bit at first about this and I'd love for you to share too about the work you do, which is also really transformative and...
Will (02:48)
Yeah, you gotta pay attention to that.
David Waldas (03:05)
you know, deep, deep work as well. And so, you know, it's, I think a line living is such a hard thing to define. And a lot of people that are listening, you know, have had experiences with it, but quite a few haven't. And so I love to ask people, how would you describe what a line living is? And it's funny how, you know, if we didn't know we were talking about the same thing, the way people describe it, you wouldn't think people are talking about the same thing. And so I'll just put you on the spot and ask you that question that how would you define what a line living is and what.
what we just did for the last 10 weeks.
Will (03:35)
Well, as a writer,
I'm really into the spell of words.
David Waldas (03:39)
Yeah, that's why I'm asking you particularly, H.W. It's one of your gifts,
I know, to pull it all together.
Will (03:45)
I mean, I often say when I'm doing writing coaching that words cast spells, which is why we call it a spelling. One of those things most of us have never thought of. Well, I'd put it in two words, really. My experience of Aligned Living, going vertical. You do a process at the beginning I found highly effective. I repeated throughout the day of shutting down our connections to the outside world, all the antenna we have.
David Waldas (03:50)
Love that.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Will (04:13)
activated, picking up signals from people and events and then internally our ideas, our thoughts, the self-talk, shutting that all out and connecting upwards with the divine source and down into the deep rich earth and then being vertical inside our bubble where we're contained and we're moving around. Sometimes I tell people in my own way that we're inside our ship, you know, this is our earth ship that we're flying around in our own Merkabah, spinning around as we go through the day.
David Waldas (04:17)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
And it's a one seater, right? It's not a two seater or a three seater. It's a one seater.
Will (04:42)
So I just, it's only,
well, you know, you're saying that from years of experience and it kind of sounds like a sound bite, but there's a whole lot of wisdom to that. Cause most of us are riding around in buses. All the seats are full. We're trains. Yeah, right. We're on a track that's going somewhere. We don't think we're in control. It's probably going too fast. And there's all these people in the seats.
David Waldas (04:52)
Right. Absolutely.
Yeah, we're trains. Because we're not even controlling where it goes. We're just on the track.
You
Will (05:11)
somebody, a past wife, a memory of a school teacher, something we're agitated about right now, and they're all filling our space. And we're going, why do I feel overwhelmed? And we say, well, I've got to do less. I've got to focus. I've got to hire a coach. Well, maybe. But the first thing I think is what you emphasize is getting really clear about our boundaries and learning how to stay inside our own field. So I'd lead with that, my appreciation for that.
David Waldas (05:13)
Yeah.
you
Yeah, beautiful. That's
great. Yeah, getting quiet and then not abandoning ourselves, right? Yeah, that's awesome.
Will (05:41)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, it was a very, very helpful program. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.
David Waldas (05:47)
Yeah, it was so fun to have you in it too. And so, you one of things I love about that, you know, I started trying to teach it as kind of single sessions and realized very quickly that that didn't work, that it needed a cohesiveness to it. And then I thought it was six weeks, a six week program and quickly discovered that the seventh week is where all the breakthroughs happen. So, you know, for quite a while, it's been a 10 week program. I think it's so interesting, you know, our definition of whatever it is that we're experiencing.
we tie it right into what we've known, right? And so we go, somebody's sharing something and like, you just shared about being vertical and about being in your own container, your own ship. Anybody that's listening, whatever experience they've had in that, their definition, their understanding of what you just said is completely related to that experience. And then we have a new experience and we go, it's actually more like this. Then we have another, and so, you know,
Will (06:41)
Yeah, right.
David Waldas (06:44)
I thought it was really interesting too, because I felt like that was part of your journey with this too is, you know, each week we created a new understanding of what is it that we're doing and each breakthrough that we have kind of creates another breakthrough on the other side of it. And it's such an interesting thing to have that patience, right? To go, I got it. And then, now I got it again. And then I got it again.
Will (07:05)
Well, true. And something I thought of, which I think everybody is aware of, is that our gifts always come with a curse. So whatever our strong suit is, there's a shadow to it. So a strong suit of mine is curiosity. I'm an explorer. I love novelty. I love innovation. Well, the shadow side of that is being unaware of where I'm stuck. And, you know, just like a celebrity, let's say a movie star,
David Waldas (07:21)
Mm-hmm.
Interesting,
Will (07:34)
assumes that they're an expert in politics. Probably you don't want to take economic advice from them, you know, just because they're a movie star. Well, I think we do that with ourselves, where we think, well, because I'm really good at this, I must be good at everything. We've got to our limitations. And you know, what I experienced going through the program was facing my limitations, often as the flip side of the coin of my strengths.
David Waldas (07:36)
Mm-hmm.
You
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, isn't it so weird? Like this is where I feel the strongest and exactly what you said. There's also a real challenge here.
Will (08:06)
Yeah, but you know the prevailing atmosphere in your program is exploration. And that is what I really, really love because you know we fear the unknown and the biggest fear is death. You know this unknown what happens after we die. Well if we can become friends with the unknown and actually look forward to it, it becomes our favorite place to be. And you get you...
David Waldas (08:11)
Yes.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because it's all new
in discovery, right?
Will (08:32)
Yeah, and you gave me a great answer to a question I asked, I think it was probably in week seven or week eight, where I was questioning how to deal with my micromanaging and my need for control. And I still remember what you said. You just sort of looked at me through the screen and you said, chaos. I went, what? And I felt like saying, is there anybody else out there?
David Waldas (08:43)
Yes.
Allow for the chaos. Embrace the chaos. Yeah. I know
I often get that with my guides. like, you got another answer?
Will (09:04)
You know, because
when you're addicted to order, you don't want to hear that the answer to that problem is chaos, welcoming chaos. And I recalled, which I shared with some friends the other day in one of my programs here, that they've videoed children playing in playgrounds, totally random. A hundred kids racing around, screaming, playing different games. When they analyze the videos, they find there's patterns.
David Waldas (09:08)
Yes, yep.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Will (09:33)
It's all organized. Well,
what's doing the organization? It's not the mothers, it's not the kids, it's life itself that's organizing them. And they're so young, they're not getting in their own way yet. They're open to it. We get older, we get older and we start to superimpose our own order on the organized chaos. So what a huge insight that is.
David Waldas (09:38)
Right, Yeah.
Yeah, they're open to it. the energy, energy organized.
Yeah.
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. And that whole piece of letting stuff get a little out of control, letting it get wobbly so that it can adjust. Because when we're always pulling it back in, it doesn't get to adjust. We don't get our breakthroughs. And one of the analogies we use a lot is that going out past the breakers. And we usually start talking about that in week one, because all this work is about moving past the part where it gets wobbly, moving past the part where it gets out of control.
living here in Southern California, see people, particularly that aren't used to the ocean, go out and wait out, wait out, wait out until they're right where the waves are breaking and they're getting slammed. And then they retreat and come back in and go, it's crazy out there. But if they just went out another 10 yards, it would be a completely different experience. And so often personal developments like that, people go, I'm going in. All right, I'm going to. And then we just, you know, get stuck in the breakers rather than just going through it and coming out the other side and not trying to correct it, not going back to shore and going, all right, let me assess what just happened here.
I went out there and got slammed and I came back is what just happened.
Will (10:55)
You're reminding me of a line Tony Robbins often used. He said, if you're working out and you're doing 10 push-ups, which one has the most value? Number 11.
David Waldas (11:06)
Yeah, there you go. That's great.
Will (11:08)
I mean you push past what you think you can do and in my routines I do various stretching things and I count just to keep track of where I'm at whatever number I'm going to I always go past that If it's 50, I'm go to 60 and I get to 50 and I'm part of me goes Oh good. I made it then I go no not yet. Not yet I need to go further and that's how we expand we go further than we believe we can we turn impossible into I'm possible same same word
David Waldas (11:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Nice, Right.
I tricked myself again.
Yeah.
Will (11:38)
just broken up differently.
David Waldas (11:39)
Right, right. Yeah, that's, you know, it's, so interesting how much of our limitations and I think that's one of the things that having coaching, you know, is so important. And you do a lot of coaching. I'm sure you've experienced that too, where people think where their limits are, and they think where their comfort zones are, and their wheelhouse and the lane they want to stay in. And I think that's for coaching, where you look at and go, no, one more, one more.
or just a little further, there's something on the other side of this. You think this is it, there's something on the other side of this.
Will (12:10)
Well, exactly, and that's why you and I are friends, frankly. Because we both know that, and unlike, sadly, too many teachers, coaches, we know that we're not anywhere final. Like, when I'm teaching coaching, whatever it is, I'm learning at least as much as my clients. And I'm teaching what I need to learn. So I don't show up and...
David Waldas (12:13)
Right, right.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely. That's one of the reasons I love teaching.
Absolutely, yeah.
Will (12:37)
and say, you know, I'm the expert here, let me impart from on high this wisdom that I have that you don't have. I mean, how arrogant is that? It actually reminds me of story of a woman who took her son to a guru in India and said, my son won't stop eating candy. Could you help him? He said, come back next week. Mother's confused, but she comes back next week. And the guru looks at the little kid and says, stop eating candy.
David Waldas (12:45)
All
Mm.
Will (13:03)
And she says, well, why didn't you just tell him that last week? And he says, well, last week I was eating candy.
David Waldas (13:08)
Exactly. Right. I have left to the number of times I've been in the middle of a channel or just I'm like, this is really cool. like, like I'm experiencing it too. At the same time. But you're the one saying it. Yes, sorta. You know, it's coming out of my mouth. But I'm so glad to having you, you know, here so that this information can come through and I get to experience it as well.
Will (13:10)
Ha
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you may have the same experience I do with that, that some of it is time release. Like something comes through, but it's not yet time. It's more like a seed that needs time in the ground, then gets watered, you see a sprout. And I had that with the new program I'm developing where I was with my mother. This has gotta be now, let's see, 16 years ago, something like that. And I was with her for the last three days of her life. She was in hospice up in Vancouver, Canada.
David Waldas (13:36)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Will (13:59)
She was so full of regret. And she just kept going over the failures in her life and how she wished she'd done that and she wished she hadn't done that. And that planted a seed in me because I sat there with her. It was very emotional. This is my mother. And I thought if only we'd had this conversation 10 years ago where maybe I could have helped her begin to face some of these things and do what she could have done before she died.
David Waldas (14:01)
Mmm. Wow.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Will (14:29)
That planted
the seed for this program now, which is called The Thriving Zone, which is identifying that part of our lives between, quote unquote, retirement and death. What happens? Well, it's really a time of decline. The body is aged, we're losing capacity, then the mind starts to go, your friends have died, you're lonely. It's not a good time in life. And yet, that's where we're all going. So my business partner,
David Waldas (14:34)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm. Yeah.
Will (14:58)
Chris Harding and I are developing this program we're calling The Thriving Zone to help people make the last chapters of their life the best chapters of their life. And you can't fight gravity. I mean, our bodies are going to decline, our minds are going to decline, but we can do something about it. you know, I've identified two parts of The Thriving Zone. The first one is about cleaning, I call it Clean Up on Isle 4.
David Waldas (15:09)
Love it. Love it.
Mm-hmm.
Nice. Right.
Will (15:26)
You you hear that in the supermarket? There's a mess on
four. Well, maybe I've got a lingering past relationship that needs cleaning up. So let's process that. Maybe I've got a wound around someone dying and I didn't help them the way I could have. There's a whole history of things to deal with and clean up. Then there's get my will together. What do I want my obituary to say? What's going to happen to my memorial service? What do I want done with my body? All these things that...
David Waldas (15:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Hmm.
Will (15:54)
awkward to face. But it's better to face them before we're like dying, you know, and any of us could buy any time. Yeah, so that all concludes with a date and I can show you mine. I don't if that shows on the screen, listeners can't hear it, but I've decided that I want to have all my material responsibilities handled by the time I'm 80. So I got this countdown timer and it's counting down to when I'm 80. So I've got 1000
David Waldas (15:56)
Yeah, yeah.
Right, and on our deathbed with regrets.
cool.
Nice.
and
Will (16:24)
979 days left. Now that's not to when I die because who knows when I'm going to die, but that's the deadline I'm making to have everything in order, all my completions done. I mean we work to deadlines. Tax time is coming up, April 15th. I'll have my taxes in by then. If I didn't have that deadline, I probably wouldn't. So the deadline helps me focus. So after that date, I cross a threshold
David Waldas (16:31)
Right? Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm.
Right, right.
Mm-hmm.
Will (16:54)
and I enter what I call prime time, which is my union with the mystery, being in the total unknown, not having to work, look after people. The money is taking care of me, not my partner. And I can just float in the unknown, kind of like an airlock to get ready to go into space. You don't just go from the ship into space. You go to...
David Waldas (16:57)
Mm.
Mm.
Mm.
Yeah, yeah, the consciousness talk.
Will (17:22)
You go into an airlock to get pressurized, then you go
into space. We're all going into space. Our bodies are going to drop. We're going to enter the unknown. Who knows what it's going to be like. But I see this as a preparation, getting closer and closer to know things and just experiencing raw awareness. So that gives you a snapshot.
David Waldas (17:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's cool. so, you know, that the whole piece to have facing death of the inevitable, you know, the thing that we all have in common that we're all going to experience, you know, that process, it's, it is, you know, in a way going out past the breakers to write, it's going through moving past the discomfort of it into a place where there actually feels like there's agency or feels like, this actually feels good to be taking place. And so have you worked through that yourself as your
you know, how does that show up for you? That idea, what does it look like to move out past the breakers with this process?
Will (18:20)
Excellent question. It's extremely emotional. Short answer. I should disclose that I've had a lifelong relationship with the phenomena of dying. And not in a morbid sense, but there's three dreams that have persisted throughout my life and intruded on my waking life. And one of them has been around dying. And I could say, honestly, I've been looking forward to it. I don't have a fear.
David Waldas (18:23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm.
Mm. Mm.
Well.
Yeah.
Will (18:48)
But when
I found the seed that was planted with my mother sprouting, I was starting to go, I need to do something with this. This is something to share with other people. And as I got into it, I'm doing a program here researching with four really high frequency people who helping me through dialogues, recorded dialogues around all this. I've entered the thriving zone myself. My first experience...
David Waldas (18:51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Great.
Will (19:17)
was of intense despair. Like, my god, I'm dying. And I felt like I could die any minute. And I thought, I need to say goodbye to my brothers. I need to be clear with my wife. And it was as if death was right on my shoulder. know, Carlos Castaneda talked about having death on your shoulder. Well, it was no longer something I read in a book.
David Waldas (19:20)
Hmm.
Hmm.
you
Mmm.
Yeah, from theory to right. Yeah. Yeah.
Will (19:44)
I was in the breakers. I was right in the breakers getting battered.
And like I got really depressed. And I went, wow, do I really want to do this? Maybe I should invent something. Yeah, I don't know. know, it's like, take this cup from me. I don't really want to do this. And then the calling got louder. was no, this is mine to do. But if I'm going to do it to help others, I've got to have the full
David Waldas (19:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, whose idea was this?
Mm-hmm.
Will (20:13)
experience myself and it's got to be emotional not just mental. So that's how it's been and I'm still there. I'm still there. mean you saw me in the program. I had some emotional times there where I was being honest about my vulnerability and how I felt raw and I was dismantling. was dissolving because that's what happens when we die. And this is conscious dying. This is dying before we die.
David Waldas (20:14)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, it's not a theory. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah,
it's, it's fascinating, well, and you know, I think to what you share with your, your mom's regrets, I think that that is scarier than dying. Like being on our deathbed with all this unfinished business with all the things we didn't fall through with or didn't shift or didn't take responsibility for. I think for a lot of people that feeling, you know, it does override the fear of dying.
that is scarier. And so I think it can become the impetus for us to step forward in that exploration.
Will (21:11)
Well, there's three questions that I came up with that are guiding the interviews that I'm doing. And the third one, I'd like to presence here because it's very interesting and I'd love your thoughts on it. The third question, well, I'll just run through all three of them. The first one is, is it possible that dying is the most important moment of our lives other than being born? Very provocative question. Number two, if so, would investing in preparation for that moment be a really good investment?
David Waldas (21:40)
You
Will (21:41)
But number three is, is it possible that how we live and especially how we prepare for dying helps determine what happens to us after we die? Now that's a fascinating question because you know about these studies they've done, I think it was at Harvard, tracking students over 20, 30, 40 years. Some of them had goals. Some of them were preparing for their lives. Others didn't.
David Waldas (21:54)
Hmm. Sure.
Mm-hmm.
Will (22:11)
The ones who got specific and wrote things down had much happier lives than the ones who didn't. So my question is, is it possible that same principle would apply after we die? So it renders that question, what happens to us after we die, kind of moot. It's more what happens to me and what happens to you.
David Waldas (22:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Will (22:41)
which are going to be entirely subjective. So I'm going to have a completely different experience after I drop this body than you will or anybody else. If that's true, and we can only register it as speculation, but if it's true, then what a great investment to make in preparing for that moment.
David Waldas (22:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yeah. And if life school is soul school, you know, that like whatever we're working through here, then we go over to the other side. You know, it has a lot to do with what did we figure out while we were here? And, know, I, I absolutely feel that way. In fact, you know, it's, it's interesting that feeling of impending death. I've had it several times. And when it really comes in for me is right after I complete something or get some teaching out that I know that I'm here to do. And it's funny when I, when I wrote my book.
When I sent it out, was like, like I got so much in that book of what I've been, you know, putting together. I'm like, and there was this feeling of like, like, am I just going to be, am I all done here now? And it's, it's, it's a very real feeling, but it's, you know, it's, it's kind of a ridiculous feeling too, because, know, as soon as that's done, then the next assignment comes in or the next tier, but there's, there's something there. And I felt it recently too, with, you know, really dialing in the 10 week program.
Will (23:45)
Ha ha ha ha.
Yeah.
David Waldas (24:01)
and going, gosh, it's so strong and so clean now. And that completion of like, it's the missing pieces are all in place now. And, and like, I guess I can die now. And, but then I'll wait next day more shit to do.
Will (24:05)
No.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah
Exactly, the
cycle ramps up again. How we die is likely going to be very much how we live. And I'm remembering a TV show I did years ago. I interviewed a man, he was in his 80s at that point, and he's the man who Ian Fleming patterned the James Bond story is on. His name was Conrad Thurmond O'Brien Fulk, his real character. He looked like David Niven.
David Waldas (24:18)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
nice.
Will (24:43)
And so was interviewing at a chalet in Colorado. Hummingbird was behind his head during the interview. Came in and out, it was really amazing. And I said, well, Conrad, at the end of our interview, said, Conrad, one last question. You you've had a great life, but you're getting closer to death. How do you feel about death? He lit up like a Christmas tree. It was amazing, this elderly man just came alive and he said, he said, I'm in no hurry to go, but when it's my time, I'll have my bags packed.
David Waldas (24:49)
You
Mm-hmm.
Will (25:13)
and he'll be at the station and then he leaned right into the camera and he said, I've always enjoyed traveling.
David Waldas (25:19)
I love it. I love it.
Will (25:21)
Now,
what a way to see your death. Conrad was a traveler. He was a spy during the war. He was captured. He lived through a concentration camp, became a world renowned artist. And that was his attitude about dying. That's inspired me ever since I heard that.
David Waldas (25:38)
That's great. know, I am a medium sometimes. I don't really do it intentionally, but it happens. You know, I'll work with somebody and all of a somebody who's passed will come in. And I had a good friend of mine that was staying with us for a little bit. And we were sitting at the dinner table and he got a text that his mother-in-law had just passed. Like in that moment.
And she was a devout religious person who had a very literal sense of heaven and God. And she popped in though, in that moment, like, but she was in a hurry. She was like, before I go, I just wanted to come in and say, love you. she, she told me, she told the story. She's like, she was, know, when you would come over for while you were in school, you'd come over for lunch quite often. And I would make you peas and
potatoes and I knew you hid the peas and I knew that you hid them underneath your underneath your plate. And he's like, I thought I thought she never caught me. She knew the whole time. And so that was like her her message to him. And then she was like lit up. Same kind of thing. She's like, I got to go like God's waiting for me. And she was so excited. Like I I just wanted to stop and say that. And it was almost like somebody that like felt this obligation and really wanted to give that last loving message. But she was like
Will (26:36)
Ha ha.
Ha ha ha ha
David Waldas (26:59)
I gotta go, like there's something beautiful waiting for me. And it was such a cool, like, I mean, for her to tell that story, they just made it undeniable. And then for her to go was...
Will (27:02)
Wow.
That is so cool.
That's so cool, David, because it lightens up a very, very heavy topic. And I remember Oscar Wilde, his last words on his deathbed, he said, either me or this wallpaper has got to go. Isn't that great? So we can lighten it up. It doesn't have to be so heavy. We're all going to do it. We're all going to do it. The question is, how do we feel about it? How do we prepare for it?
David Waldas (27:26)
It's
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Will (27:35)
and then how ready are we in that moment to completely surrender. Anything that I'm planning on doing that's got a little charge to it that may be challenging, I want to rehearse. I want to practice. I don't want to try and hit a home run the first time I step up to the base, the home plate. I want to swing a few times, miss, hit some foul balls, and finally, I may be able to hit a home run.
David Waldas (27:58)
Yeah, yeah, and make friends with it too. know, it's funny, this is a really interesting story. Another time this happened, I was actually doing readings at a center and I was there all day and this, again, I'm not a medium, but it happens. This young man and an older man came in like, like they're ghosts, you know, like they passed. And, and so I knew somebody was coming in to get a reading and they wanted to find out about it. And so
Eventually this young woman comes in and she's like, she didn't, she really didn't have any money, so she couldn't afford the session. And I'm like, do you have a cousin and a dad? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, they've been bugging me all day. She's like, well, I don't, can't pay for the reading. I'm like, well, like, what am going to not tell you what they're saying? They're like standing right here. And so we went out and stood outside on the sidewalk for a few minutes. And, and I just shared it it was really fascinating because her cousin had taken his own life.
And, uh, you know, was really sad, but she wanted to know, like, was he okay? Like he'd lived such a, uh, uh, hard life. And, and what he said was, goes, you know, I needed to be on the other side. Like I couldn't be in my earth body. I mean, use those words, but my biggest regret looking back was I had this plan. Like I had this plan. Like I wanted to do something grand in my exit. Like I wanted to drive a car at 120 miles an hour off of a cliff and like have this grand exit. And I, and I didn't do that.
I just, I forget how he passed, but he just, it was very passive, like pills or something like that. And he left and, they were just like, he talked about this for years, like that this was going to be his grand exit, that he was going to do that. And he goes, you know, like even in my exit, I couldn't get out of the stuck place I was in my body. I couldn't do something extraordinary in that I just left. And it was, it was such a like, like,
I mean, it's heavy, but it's not at the same time. was such a powerful, you know, for him to be on the other side, reflecting that and going, yeah, this is, this is how it went for me.
Will (29:57)
Well, I resonate and I always feel just terrible when I hear about a suicide. And maybe one of the way down the road applications for this program that Chris and I are developing is to address that issue of suicide. Because when a person takes their life, it's actually an act of ownership. They have agency. I heard that people jumped off the towers on 9-11 because they could.
David Waldas (30:02)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well.
Will (30:24)
They knew
they were going to die and so they owned their life in dying. But why couldn't a person translate that differently instead of taking their life, owning their life? There's a specific difference there. It's not the body that they need to get rid of. It's all the baggage that tells them they're only their body. They're not only their body. They're a perfect divine being walking around in a very flawed human body.
David Waldas (30:27)
Mm-hmm, on their terms,
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Will (30:53)
That's a difference. That's an identity shift.
David Waldas (30:55)
Absolutely. That's great. I love that. And I think that young man, that if he could have found that place where he would have had a dramatic exit, he wouldn't have exited because he would have been able to step forward into his life and start claiming his life and creating what he wanted. Instead, you know, meekly left.
Will (31:10)
Yeah, yeah. We did a
cool thing with my neighbor, one of my best friends, Jeff, who died a couple of years ago now. He had a heart attack and he had talked about having a pie fight. He always wanted to have a pie fight. So we had the memorial service on our property. You've been there, nice nature spot. And so big open area and there's think 60 or 70 of us and his girlfriend made
David Waldas (31:15)
Mm.
Yeah, beautiful in Ashland, yeah.
Mm.
Will (31:39)
70 pies, like cream pies, berry pies, and she got outfits like hazmat suits, because we were kind of dressed up, so we all put on these white plastic suits right over her heads and everything, and then we all plastered each other with pies. And I felt Jeff's presence there so keenly. He was grinning from ear to ear, and we were crying and plastering each other's faces with pies.
David Waldas (31:40)
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha
Have fun.
Yeah, yeah, big, big, big smile.
and
Will (32:09)
And the video guy captured an image, I got chills right now as I remember it, of the whole scene and up in the sky in the clouds perfectly formed a distinct shape of a heart. Unmistakable, a heart in the sky and that was Jeff saying goodbye.
David Waldas (32:11)
Mm.
Wow. Yeah, me too, me too.
Wow, beautiful. Yeah.
Yeah, how beautiful. Yeah, and I think when we get clear how much of a there is this bridge, there's this continuation, know, and having so many experiences, you know, having mediumship experiences, it changes, it just changes our sense of like, wow, like, it's unmistakable, there's something that happens next, you know, that first, I think that sharing about those peas, you know, that was like, it was just such confirmation that this is this is not it.
Will (32:59)
Well, and I really loved the way you talked about that sense of completion when you get a book out or you finish a program. It's like, okay, I'm all done. And one thing I encourage people to do is don't think of your life as a movie. Think of it as serious. So that's the end of season one or episode eight. And, you know, I've done some work in television and Chris used to have an agency in LA. So we're both familiar with the process of needing to come up with more material.
David Waldas (33:16)
Right.
Yes, yeah.
Will (33:28)
So
one of the four components in our program is about stories and how we get to say, this is the story that was, but season three is over. I'm starting season four. It could be completely different. They're probably some of the same characters in season four, but maybe they have changes. What do I want to write, produce, direct and star in for the next episode? And it's just a great frame for people to look at and go, wow.
David Waldas (33:32)
Nice.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right, right.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Will (33:57)
I may be 70 years old, but I can still be creative. can create, yeah, create a different life story. If my life in the past was a drama and maybe sometimes a horror story, I could turn it into a comedy or a detective thriller. I have agency to do that.
David Waldas (33:59)
Yeah, more ownership, more agency.
Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, this is great, Will. And so people that want to reach out, know, if they're, if they're feeling an appeal for this, maybe when they first heard it, they were like, wow, on earth would I do that? And now as we're talking about it, like, maybe that sounds kind of cool. Maybe this is an adventure I need to go on. How do they, how do they find you?
Will (34:28)
Thank you.
They were about to shift over to some mellow jazz music. Well, my websites are all in process right now because this is so new. But if anybody resonates with this germ of an idea, I'm actively looking for explorers willing to input their ideas. So we're not even in a beta test. It's like all alpha just gathering material. So they can get in touch with me by email.
David Waldas (34:36)
Yeah.
you
Mm-hmm.
Will (35:00)
That's the easiest way. It's my name, is Will T. Wilkinson. So it's Will with two L's at WillTWilkinson.com.
David Waldas (35:00)
Okay.
Great, great. Awesome. We'll put that in the show notes as well too. So yeah, yeah, always so fun to talk. Well, this is great. This is great. And so excited to share this with the listeners too. And I think it fits really well with the work we do with the line living as well. It's that exploration going inside of ourselves and bringing what's in here to the outside and recognizing that the deepest parts of us are the most valuable, the most beautiful.
Will (35:14)
Great, well thanks, I really enjoyed doing this.
Totally.
David Waldas (35:38)
And all that stuff in between is where all the struggle is. And so don't stand in the breakers, go deep. Awesome. Sounds great. So glad to have you on, For sure, for sure.
Will (35:43)
Go deep. Go further than you think you can go.
Well, thanks so much, David.
